Posts by Rex B13

9

modern day prophets

by Julie in

jw
friends

lately i have seen it pointed out that the bible is indeed inspired, if only the parts that contain prophecy (that of course have "come true").

this compelled me to make the comment that anyone with any knowledge of the ways of humankind can be a pretty accurate prophet.. prophecy, in one form or another, has been a necessary skill for all sorts of people throughout the ages.

anyone who needed to come up with a strategy needed to be an accurate prophet.

Rex B13

Hi Sweet Lady!
>Lately I have seen it pointed out that the bible is indeed inspired, if only the parts that contain prophecy (that of course have "come true"). This compelled me to make the comment that anyone with any knowledge of the ways of humankind can be a pretty accurate prophet.

Yes, we that with the 'hit and miss' prophets of today, who seem to be remembered only when they are right!

>Prophecy, in one form or another, has been a necessary skill for all sorts of people throughout the ages. Anyone who needed to come up with a strategy needed to be an accurate prophet. Generals planning military campaigns, aspiring kings looking to usurp a throne, rulers of small countries needing to occupy their ambitious, more powerful neighbors, all utilized the skill of foresight/prophecy.

Yes, all true. There are guidelines that Christain scholars use then there are guidlines used by skeptics. However, with the 'Jesus Seminar' crowd they start off with the assumption that "no true prophecy can have happened", therefore, they seek to redate all valid Bible prophecy. They do the same with the resurrection and other miracles, they assume that "no real miracles occur, all that is not natural cannot exist". So you see, much of the so called evidence on both sides of the issue can be biased with assumtions that make the testing of scripture in valid.

>Who are today's modern prophets? They could be anyone from someone in politics planning a campaign to someone in marketing figuring out how to market a new product. Someone planning a social event would need to apply foresight, even someone as regular as a mom anticipating a child's needs plays the prophet from time to time.
It is simply a matter of knowing your fellow man and the way the world works. Prophecy is no big trick as I have done it countless times and I am sure so have most of you, whether you realize it or not.

Ah, but prophecies in the Bible are often hundreds of years in the making. The original prophet usually doesn't know what he has been given, nor does he see the prophecy fullfilled.

>In light of this obvious truth it is time that the believers of the bible came up with some other reason we must believe it to be divinely inspired. Prophecy is such a common, everyday occurance that we are either all divinely inspired or, as I contend, it is merely a little logic mixed with foresight, quite attainable for huge segments of the population.

Here is where we disagree. Prophecy in a Biblical sense is under much stricter rules than everyday prediction by good planning. Think about this: How in the world could a work of this nature, 66 books and many authors, that meshes so well, ever be put together without inspiration? Did you know that for Jesus to have fullfilled just nine of the 258 prophecies He did fullfill, the odds are comparable to filling the state of Texas with silver dollar coins, writing your name on one and having someone toss it out in the midst of these, then actually finding it with one try?

>Love to all,
Julie

My love to you as well!
Rex

9

Jesus, Metaphor, and Allegory...

by Abaddon in

jw
friends

... are three small towns in kansas.. well, they could be.. i saw an episode of this australian sci-fi series called 'farscape' a while back.

in it one of the main characters gets mistaken for a god on this planet he's stranded on.

although he loved the adulation, it all got very nasty when they realised he wasn't a god after all.. it made me think.

Rex B13

Hi Abaddon,

And here is what I consider low class and entirely inappropriate:

"BECAUSE I DON'T BELIEVE JESUS IS DIVINE, DUMB ASS!

There is a difference between conceeding Jesus might be based upon a historical character and saying he's the son of god... and I guarantee, if he was a just a mortal visionary, born ahead of his time, and got nailed to a tree for having a big mouth, then he probably was saying "For fucks sake, the stuff about son-of-god was an allegory you morons, get these fucking nails out of my hands!"

Did you miss the point completely, or just overdose on the meanie pills this morning? Did the dog get 'affectionate' with your Turkey, and you not find out until after you were eating it?

Anyway, I doubt very much if you would show what a Muslim or a Hindu would consider respect to their beliefs, and you show little respect for anything other than your own 'light', so all I am doing is as you do. But of course, you have double standards. FUnny, that. But don't worry, underneath it all, you too are a son of god."

Is this the type of thing that you want to be identified with?
You just spoke in this manner to another person who has come out of the same misery as you did. How can you lash out at someone that you don't know in this way?
You might consider this in your future posts. Simon has told all of us (in the past) to keep things civil and the language reasonable in this forum. He recognizes that excesses of 'free speech' can very well give newbies the impression that the Watchtower is right about 'apostates'. Your behavior here is a prime example of this.
Rex

9

Jesus, Metaphor, and Allegory...

by Abaddon in

jw
friends

... are three small towns in kansas.. well, they could be.. i saw an episode of this australian sci-fi series called 'farscape' a while back.

in it one of the main characters gets mistaken for a god on this planet he's stranded on.

although he loved the adulation, it all got very nasty when they realised he wasn't a god after all.. it made me think.

Rex B13

Hi Abaddon,
First of all, you posted it out there bold and with a title that Christians would probably want to read. Acting innocent and trying to justify your offense is not going to cut it.
You seem to have a real anger problem. You should sit back and read what you wrote to me. I am a REAL PERSON sitting out here and not some opponent for you to call names at a whim. Do you realize that you just wrote a whole page justifying what amounted to an attack on the sensibilities of many people here?
Yes, I did not use your words in my quote. I think that being vulgar in public is low class and offensive. I don't expect you to think or act as I do. However, I do have the obligation to warn you of (possibly) unintentional judgement you are incurring when you blapheme the one who died on the cross (that we may have life).
You don't have to believe, not at all, but if you think that the natural world is all and then you die, you have been thoroughly misled.
When I happen to run across a post that offends me (and others) and lacks common decency, I call it out and that is not going to change.
Rex

3

Pastor's lesson has spread to thousands

by Mindchild in

jw
friends

this news appeared on cnn today.

you can find the link at:.

http://www.cnn.com/2001/us/11/22/pastors.lesson.ap/index.html.

Rex B13

Thanks for showing an example of true Christianity!
Rex

15

The Unforgivable Sin

by expatbrit in

jw
friends

one of those phrases that jw's always seem to (amusingly) lower their voices when saying is "the unforgivable sin".

this is defined as, i believe, grieving the holy spirit.. when i was a witness, it was generally assumed that adolf hitler had committed the unforgivable sin.

presumably because he wasn't taken in with the wt's brown-nosing of the nazis.

Rex B13

Gumby,

>Quote: "Anyone willfully and obstinately continuing to practice sin after he knows the truth is not forgiven"

One thing that really 'twists their tails' is to ask innocently:
"What if what one thought was the 'truth' turns out to have some lies in it?"
You get some rather funny looks with that one, until the 'dub conditioning kicks in and they get defensive and go into denial.
Rex

9

Jesus, Metaphor, and Allegory...

by Abaddon in

jw
friends

... are three small towns in kansas.. well, they could be.. i saw an episode of this australian sci-fi series called 'farscape' a while back.

in it one of the main characters gets mistaken for a god on this planet he's stranded on.

although he loved the adulation, it all got very nasty when they realised he wasn't a god after all.. it made me think.

Rex B13

Science fiction has always provided rich imaginations with many ideas that may or may not be realistic to contemplate. You said:

>All nice Christians look away, the following scene may disturb you. Dumb-ass Christians can get insulted as much they like.

What's the purpose of that display of no compassion? Do you think that your reputation (and respect) improves amongst all here by simply tossing away the opinions of Christians as worthless?

>A hillside, dusk.

"Three crosses/stakes are silhouetted against a glorious red sunset.

A plaintive voice is heard;

"For ____ sake, the stuff about son-of-god was an allegory you morons, get these f__king nails out of my hands!"

Of course, it probably didn't happen that way... I've no problem with Jesus being historical as he may have been. I actually quite like the idea of a historical Jesus, as he seemed quite cool."

Then why blaspheme the Holy One like this?

>But we don't really know what he meant or said. Not even the most rabid repetition of unfounded claims of the Bible’s inspiration will prove we have a documentary account of Jesus’ life.

Oh really? How much have you examined the actual history as recorded from all sources?
"Evidence that Demands a Verdict" 1 & 2 by Josh McDowall might be a good start if you are serious.
How much have you actually considered the concepts of Christianity as compared to pantheism and theism?
"Mere Christianity" and "Miracles" by C. S. Lewis would be a good place to begin if you understand logical concepts

>Maybe he actually said ‘son of god’, sure, but only had that taken literally by people who wanted him dead, or people by ‘re-interpreting the past with a profound lack of history’ (name that song and the artist for ten points).

It's kind of obvious that you have some kind of 'axe to grind' with God but you are really just 'fighting windmills' with your approach. Try not to be so offensive and you might get more serious responses to your postings.
Rex

18

Christendom basically has it right!

by Amazing in

jw
friends

i saw yadirf's post (formerly friday on h20) barking about how christendom still has it all wrong regarding the trinity, immortal soul, all going to heaven, hellfire, jesus dying on a stake and not a cross, etc.. it is obvious that such people as yadirf have never visited a regular mainline church or he would not make such absurd claims, the very same idiotic claims touted by the watch tower lying and deceit society.. most christians and christian theologians do profess the trinity, in varied forms, but it is not a matter of salvation to accept it.

likewise for the soul, hell, the cross, etc.. genuine everyday christians are far more concerned about living a christian life, doing good, and following jesus.

they do witness, though informally as the spirit moves them ... which is a far more caring, considerate, and successful method then the watch tower door-to-door system.

Rex B13

For the benefit of all ex-JWs who still believe Watchtower shifting sands theology:

(From one of my previous links, cut and paste directly to you!)
Answering Watchtower Objections
David Henke

Jehovah's Witnesses will object to the Christian that the word "Trinity" is not found in the scripture, the doctrine is unreasonable, it is of pagan Babylonish origin, it was introduced as church doctrine in the fourth century, is a "complicated, freakish-looking, three-headed God" (Let God Be True, p. 83), and finally they will call it unscriptural.

Is The Word "Trinity" In The Bible?
One of the easiest objections to answer is the charge that the term "Trinity" is not found in scripture. True, it is not.

The term has been attributed to both Theophilus (116 to 181 AD), and Tertullian (160 to 220 AD). It expresses the Biblical teaching of three Persons (tri) in one God (unity).

If Jehovah's Witnesses insist that this point is important point out to them that the terms "millenium," "theocracy," and "rapture" are not found in scripture either. Will they stop believing their doctrine on these subjects because of the absence of these words in scripture?

Is It Unreasonable?
It must be kept in mind, and repeated often to the Jehovah's Witness, that the sense in which God is "one" (his nature) is different from the sense in which he is "three" (Persons).

As Rev. John S. Banks says in A Manual of Christian Doctrine, "The combination of the two elements involves no logical contradiction, because they refer to the Godhead in different respects, one to nature, the other to persons. The mere fact of incomprehensible mystery is no objection, every truth respecting God being no less mysterious" (p. 108).

God is an infinite being and man is a sin darkened finite creature so by definition man is unable to comprehend infinite perfection, regardless of whether it is the Watchtower god or the Biblical God.

A Pagan Doctrine?
>
It is true there are pagan "trinities" which date back to Babylon, but rather than this fact supporting the Watchtower contention it actually is an evidence in favor of the Biblical triune God.

Robert Watts in New Apologetic says the pagan triads are "residuary fragments of the lost knowledge of God, not different stages in a process of theological evolution, but evidence of a moral and spiritual degradation" (p. 195; as quoted in Augustus H. Strong's Systematic Theology, p. 352).

Thus, because Israel had spent four hundred years in pagan Egypt, where the triad of Osiris, Isis, and Horus held sway, God began their theological education by establishing the unity of God first. Later they would learn of the plurality of Persons within the unity of the one God. To start by revealing plurality within unity would leave an opening for interpretation consistent with the pagan counterfeits. This view is presented in the book The Two Babylons by Alexander Hislop.

Hislop says concerning these pagan trinities, "All these have existed from ancient times. While overlaid with idolatry, the recognition of a Trinity was universal in all ancient nations of the world, proving how deep-rooted in the human race was the primeval doctrine on this subject, which comes out so distinctly in Genesis" (p. 18).
(Whoa, isn't this one of the publications so often referred to by JW writers?)

A Fourth Century Invention?
Jehovah's Witnesses charge that the doctrine is of late origin, a fourth century product, hence an invention of man. With the advent of Jesus, and the writing of the New Testament, God reveals clearly the plurality of Persons in the Godhead.

What we see in Church history from that point until the fourth century is a growing controversy over the person of Christ, and not whether three Persons comprise the one God.

For the most part this was a disagreement over his humanity, not his deity. The Gnosticism of the day, which influenced some of the church Fathers, did not see that God, who is pure and holy, could have any real contact with matter, which they saw as evil.

Thus the incarnation of God in Jesus Christ (Emmanuel, meaning `God with us') presented some church Fathers with problems over Jesus' true humanity. Their dilemma was to figure out how Jesus, whom they understood to be God, could take on a material body which is evil?

This was the issue John addressed in 1 John. He stated that to deny "that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh" is of anti-Christ (1 John 4:1-3).

When the Watchtower says the doctrine of the Trinity was "formulated" in the fourth century they are implying that it was invented then. They are wrong. The doctrine was believed by the Church from the time of the Apostles.

A doctrine is seldom defined precisely until some error comes along to force a precise definition. This defining of what the Church already believed about God was what the Councils of Nicaea and Constantinople accomplished.

And do you know what? If they are wrong about the trinity they they are unreliable regarding every other main doctrine in the Bible!
Rex

41

Christendom will NEVER hit the mark!

by Yadirf in

jw
friends

here's a representation of how many times that christendom has hit the bullseye with regards to knowing what the bible teaches.

she teaches that man has an immortal soul; that heaven is the only destiny of the "saved" (no paradise earth then); that jesus and his father are co-eternal/equal (that jesus had no beginning); they say that what jacob and his mother did was bad; political envolvement (part of the world); loves pagan holidays; thinks that god produced the star of bethlehem;thinks that the commission to preach only applies to the clergy and not to the laity; etc., etc., etc.. .

christendom considers herself to be christ's representatives.

Rex B13

Hey Yadirf,

You might try and educate yourself on valid scriptural interpretation.

http://www.watchman.org/jw/answers.htm Answering Watchtower Objections
http://www.gospelcom.net/apologeticsindex/t03.html The Biblical Basis of the Doctrine of the Trinity by Robert Bowman
http://www.gospelcom.net/apologeticsindex/t10.html The Doctrine of the Trinity
http://answering-islam.org.uk/Trinity/beckwith.html The Trinity by Francis J Beckwith
http://www.probe.org/docs/bel-trin.html Why We Should Believe in the Trinity Pat Zuckeran
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/9t8/9t8072.html Writing the Trinity Philip Yancey
http://www.atlantaapologist.org/Sharp.html A Bicentennial Defense of Granville Sharp's Argument for the Deity of Christ.

If you study even one of these arguments and deny they are correct then you are exceedingly ignorant or a liar.
Cheers!
Rex

40

Who are the true worshippers of God?

by AGuest in

jw
friends

may you all have peace!

(yes, i know i am starting a new thread when one already exists, but most of you know me by now...).

the 'true' worshippers of god are those that worship him... in spirit... and in truth.

Rex B13

Let's examine some of Shelby's rantings:

>They know that God... does NOT dwell in handmade temples. They also know that they have NO 'earthly' leaders, but instead have only ONE Leader... the Son of God... JAHESHUA (JAH saves) MISCHAJAH (anointed of JAH)... for there is only One WAY... to 'come to' the Father.

Jesus is just fine to use, no need to transliterate. He knows who we are praying to. BTW, the Apostles considered themselves leaders and encouraged the other believers to follow their examples...but also to test their teachings as the Bereans did. A leader is a true Christain leader if His teachings can be backed fully by scripture, without context twisting. However, he must also strive to keep error to a minimum because he will face stricter judgeemnt for his errors. Do you ever think about that, Shelby?

>John 14:6
They know that NO man can save them, and so do not put their trust in ANY of 'earthling man'... but that there is only One... who can set them 'free'... the TRUTH... and the True Light that is a 'lamp' to their feet.

Wrong again, sweet Shelby. Jesus is still man, raised in His spiritual body and God-man in full deity at the right hand of God (Phil. 2.6-11). His body still bore the wounds before he ascended and scripture does not teach that this changed.

ASV Philippians 2:5-11
5 Have this mind in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped,
7 but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men;
8 and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, becoming obedient even unto death, yea, the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore also God highly exalted him, and gave unto him the name which is above every name;
10 that in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven and things on earth and things under the earth,
11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

NIV John 20:27-31
27 Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."
28 Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"
29 Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

NIV John 1:16-19
16 From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another.
17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.
19 Now this was John's testimony when the Jews of Jerusalem sent priests and Levites to ask him who he was.

>They know that this Way, this Truth and this Life... is the 'door' by which any who wish to 'enter' into the kingdom must navigate, and that it is HIS 'voice' that they must listen to, hear... and obey... for such one speaks to his sheep... from the heavens... calls them BY NAME... just as my Father did with his servants Noah, Abraham, Moses, Samuel, Jonah, Jeremiah, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Paul, etc.,... and LEADS them himself. Thus, they need no other to 'lead' them, for HE is the "Fine Shepherd" who truly cares for the sheep. All others who come IN PLACE of him... are thieves... and plunderers... whose vocation is not to give their lives for the sheep as that One did... but the hand the sheep over to wolf... the 'wild beast'... to be snatched... and scattered.

If all that blather applies, then what does that make you (thieves..plunderers)?

>Such ones 'hear' the Master's voice... NOT with ears of flesh, but with ears... of SPIRIT... founded on FAITH. Rather than dismiss what is 'heard' as folly, or delusion, or demons... they exercise faith and obey that voice (and no, it does not tell them to 'do' demonic, wicked, evil or harmful things... to anyone... including themselves!)

Could that 'spirit' tell one to preach a false gospel that is couched in Christian words with a gentle 'twist' that misleads others?

>God is SPIRIT, dear ones, as is my Lord. [They] are NOT 'flesh with its blood', although at one time my Lord did walk in the flesh as we have it. SinFUL flesh.

No, nothing sinful about Jesus' flesh. He was fathered by the Holy Spirit and perfect, thereby becoming the 'New Adam', a propitiatary sacrifice for our sins when he did His work on the cross.

>And since God 'does not look at the outward appearance' of a man, but considers what is the HEART of a man, his SPIRIT, what is INSIDE... it is to the benefit of such ones to cleanse the INSIDE of the [vessel], before being concerned with the state of the outside of it.

Better check your Bible. The Holy Spirit, He does this cleansing and it is not complete until we get to glory.

>Such ones learn then, that to please God... they must rid themselves of HYPOCRISY, HATRED... and DECEIT. They must cleanse their hearts.

"We are saved by grace through faith and not works, lest no man boast" Eph. 2.8,9.
James clearly teaches in his epistle that our works are an evidence of our faith, as does Paul throughout the book of Romans. Really, Shelby, you need to buy some decent commentaries, especially on the book of Romans if you want to learn Biblical theology. Even a good study Bible would help.
Ah, but I forgot, teaching scripture would cut down on your extra-biblical revelations, eh? LOL

>And simply attending meetings, and going out in service, and saying mass, and mumbling hail marys... will not suffice. All such things are a 'form of godly devotion'... but proves false to its power.

No, all are traditions. God does however wants us to worship Him and when we do it in groups we feed off the power within one another. The source of that power is God Himself for "all sin and fall short of God's glory" and "the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord".
We gain that power by grace through faith and not of our own works!

>Where can you find such ones? The recorded words of my Lord tells us:
"For where the body is... there the [flesh eating flying creatures] gather."

That's a twist on Luke 21. This is speaking of our Lord's return and tells us why we are not to believe false prophets (Luke 21.8).

>ay you have ears to hear what the Spirit says... and if you are wishing, thirsting and hearing, may you also receive the invitation of the Spirit and the Bride, who KEEP saying:
"Come! Take "life's water"... free!"

Actually, the Bible teaches that we are called by God and would not do so on our own. Have you ever even read Romans, Shelby? This particular event occurs in Revelation and after the elect are taken there.

>A true servant to the Household of God, Israel, and true slave of Christ,

Yeah, right.
Here's my last question and it's for extra credit. What three persons of the trinity can you find working on creation?

ASV Genesis 1:1-3
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 And the earth was waste and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep: and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

KJV John 1:1-3
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Have a nice day!
Rex

40

Who are the true worshippers of God?

by AGuest in

jw
friends

may you all have peace!

(yes, i know i am starting a new thread when one already exists, but most of you know me by now...).

the 'true' worshippers of god are those that worship him... in spirit... and in truth.

Rex B13

>Dearest Gumby, peace to you (Luke 10:5)...
Please know that we were not created in God's 'image'. Adam was created in God's image; we, however, were created in Adam's image. When God said "Let us make man", He meant the man Adam, and not 'mankind'.

Wait a minute, Shelby. We are not 'created in Adam's image'. We are offspring of Adam, bearing the same sin nature. Also, God foreknew and predestined all to occur as it has...or He is not God but some 'a god' as JWs like to portray Jesus, who is God the Son. Therefore He did mean 'mankind', knowing full well that we would fall from grace.
There is no 'new creation' until the advent of Christ.

>animals as well as plants have the ability to be obedient... or disobedient... to God. For we all share one spirit, yes?

NO. Scripture clearly teaches that man has dominion over all creation and that did not change with the fall. Animals act on instinct and with the minor tricks that man can teach them. They do not know good or bad. They are not share any spirit with us, they have no immortal soul and scriptures teach that they are a lower creation.

>Just because they are 'dumb' and exist in different bodies does not mean they cannot... and do not... worship God.

Oh boy! Is that some divine revelation from your 'a god' Shelby? Does someone 'pass you the bottle' when you 'consult the spirits'? Where is your scriptural backing for this one! LOL

>They are, in fact, more obedient than we are, for the most part. We are not superior to them, but they were put in subjection to us so that we could CARE for them, just as a wife in subjection to a husband is to be cared for. We can use them for food, but we CANNOT abuse them.

So by your reasoning we are cannibals. Amazing Insight Ms. Prophetess!

>Also, please forgive my 'manner'... I do not intend to offend. It is just the way I have been directed to speak... to give the glory to my Father and my Lord, both of whom, by the way are not ONLY my Father and my Lord. I say this only in the manner of the Son of God, who referred to the Father as his God and [our] God, and Thomas, who referred to my Lord as HIS Lord. It is purely personal, that's all.

You are so transparent. You are in the same category as Watchman and Bibleman......
Only you are calculating and not innocently nuts as they seem to be

>Lea... Kim... peace and GREAT love to you both, my beloved sisters.

Followers from the Great Prophetess Site?

>Julie... THANK YOU and peace to you! You continually make me quite 'happy'... and for that, I am indebted to you.

So are we, she sees through your little charade.

>Matthew 5:10, 11

Again, peace to you all!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

I don't think so. Is Jesus God, Shelby, just as He claimed to be?
We who see through you are going to keep an eye on your attempts to gain a following, better go elsewhere if you want to recruit.
Rex